Updated: Jun 20
Managing a podcast is a lot of work. But in this week's episode of the Marketing Bound Podcast, Kristin Molenaar, founder of podcast guest service, YesBoss, reveals how to leverage the podcast world without having a podcast. It could be a great strategy to explore as an alternative to managing a business podcast and an alternative to traditional public relations methods. Kristin focuses on helping entrepreneurs but I think this strategy can be applied to B2B businesses as well, especially when you have Subject Matter Experts in the business.
Here is what you can expect:
Why Podcasting is So Effective for Relationship Building
Laura: We always circle back to like the best way to build a business is through people, is through building those relationships. And I know you feel so strongly about that and that's actually how you built your initial business.
Kristin: It is. Yeah. I'm all about people. And the thing that I like to say about podcast guesting is I feel like it's networking on steroids so a lot of people see it, you know, I think that a lot of people are pigeonholed into the thinking that it's like marketing and PR, which it is like, I'm not saying it's not.
But the greatest asset has been the networking. So it's like networking on steroids, because if you think about it, like you and I could have met on some app, like lunchbox or whatever that thing is called, or like, I don't know, like gotten together and been like, oh, maybe we have synergy in our business.
We could like talk and try to figure it out. And you share about your business. I share about my business, then we go, okay, cool. Glad to meet you. See you later, but, and I feel like that's like an awkward first date, but when you're a guest on a podcast, it's like having like five dates, you know? And, and the thing that I like to talk about too, which I think is it's funny and it's true is that this is the only environment that you're going to be invited as an guest to literally show up and brag about yourself for like 20 to 60 minutes. And it's socially appropriate and expected.
Laura: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But you said so many great things. So one thing you said is that it's networking on steroids, right?
Kristin: Yup. Yup.
Laura: I just want to say that when you get on podcasts, you're a guest or in my case, I'm the host. Right. I met more people during the two years of COVID than I ever did before in business.
Kristin: mind blowing.
Laura: Yeah. So like, wow, absolutely. On steroids and most of those people, because I've kept a relationship with them. I can just like call up and say like, Hey, how's it going?
Kristin: And what's crazy to add on top of that is it doesn't like, for me, it doesn't matter that my business pivoted, you and I still have a relationship. And my business pivot did not make this relationship obsolete versus if I just treated it like a marketing tool, it might have.
This is the value of networking versus just looking at this as a marketing practice, you know, you and I, and the people that interviewed me when my business looked differently, I still have a relationship with these people. And there's still value that I can add to those relationships that other people can add to me.
Because there's like this more foundational thing going on, like you and other podcasts hosts that I've met, like we have foundational business beliefs that align. So what our business pivots, like it still is a relationship that has relevancy.
Laura: And that's what we figured out when we like caught up like a month ago or so. And we're like, wait a minute. Even though we both changed everything, we can still work together.
How To Prep To Be A Great Podcast Guest
Kristin: So I have a lot of pieces of advice. I'm very opinionated about this. I wasn't when I got it got started, but my team and I have really like reverse engineered why what I did worked and then tried to measure some analytics and trying to figure all this out because you know, now we're doing it for other people.
So how do we replicate this? So we've come up with some really great stuff that it makes it fun talking about it. Cause I can actually give really great points. But the first thing is you've got to know what you're talking about as a podcast guest. So we do PR prep with all of our clients, because we're not just throwing you in as a podcast guest because you have really awesome accolades.
This is not about accolades. This is about value that you could bring to the people listening. And the reason that we figured that out is because when my team started pitching me for podcasts, I had zero social media presence and a really bad website, but people still said that they would have me on their podcast. That blew my mind.
You know, at first I had a lot of imposter syndrome thinking nobody would feature me because of those things, but my pitch and my motivation was all about how do I help other entrepreneurs? How do I show up? And essentially like add value, how do I serve them? And what we have found is that puts me as a guest in alignment with the podcast host, the podcast host wants to provide value to the audience.
They don't care necessarily about how much money or how many followers the person that they're interviewing has, they want to know what value are they going to bring to the audience that they serve? So we help our clients, right? Give them talking points that align with those values. You know, we want to tee up what we call profitable conversations.
Kristin: So profitable conversations. Like, how do you tell your transformation story? So what makes you both relatable and inspirational as a business owner? Like what's gonna make people know, like, and trust you you know, what is your methodology? So what makes you different than other people who are doing what you're doing?
You know, there's a lot of people that do what we do, you know, my business, everybody listings, business, what you do, Laura. Like we're not one of a kind, but what makes us different? What's that methodology? How do we, how do the people that are listening go, oh, that makes them different. I like that. And for me, my methodology and my point of differentiation, there is, this is networking on steroids.
This is just straight marketing PR. Like we want to teach you how to meet amazing people that you're going to have longevity with, that you're going to have profitable relationships. That's how we're a little bit different in that way.
And then the third one. How do you talk about case studies? So what in your business what stories in your business, what success stories are going to make people listening go, oh, not only can they do it for themselves, but they could do it for me too.
I see the value in what they bring and what they're doing for other people's businesses. So, you know that to kind of like wrap up. It's PR prep that we're doing for our clients. And that I feel like everybody wants to be a guest. They've got to think through this. This stuff is what am I talking about? How am I bringing value? Not why am I wonderful, but why can I provide value that the people listening to the podcast will enjoy?
Laura: And that you're really focused on the relationships with those podcasters, because you're thinking about them before you thinking about yourself. And that's the beginning of a beautiful relationship because I get pitches all the time. And let me tell you, they're awful. Most of them are so awful and you're just like, Someone approved this!?
But I remember when I saw your pitch, I was like, this is perfect. And you also gave me like, questions that I can ask you. And I was like, oh my gosh, I don't have to prepare anything.
And I'll have to look at her stuff. Like everything was in that email.
Kristin: I like to say it as you have to serve up an episode on a silver platter. That's how I see it. Yeah.
Laura: Yeah, exactly. And that's what you did. And that's like the beginning of our relationship.
What's Makes a Podcast Guest Profitable
Laura: So, these are great points on how you teach your clients on how to show up as a guest, but then what makes them profitable? Well, how can you make money from these appearances.
Kristin: Yeah. So like we said, the foundation is having the profitable conversations, so that lays the foundation. And I, I believe that that foundation is like a knowledge foundation, so that the podcast host and the podcast audience, they understand what you do and who you serve.
So you've got to start there. But then what happens as a result of that the number one thing that I have seen over and over again with our clients, with our internal case studies. You'd be surprised. People think like, well, when the episode gets published, that's when it's all going to start.
And I feel like that's shortsighted. And also, I want to say that the profit actually sometimes starts before the episode even airs. So 75% of the profit that we have seen come to us and our clients is a result of the relationship and leveraging that relationship for the next thing only twenty-five percent is actually in the airing of the episode.
So what I mean by that is, you know, we have podcast hosts that send direct referrals to Yes Boss, you know, I get emails from people like you, Laura. They're like, Hey Kristin, meet my friend, you know, so-and-so they need to be a guest on podcasts. I told them that you're the person to work with.
And basically, the referrals come like pre-sold, that's my favorite. You know, the podcast hosts are like talking me up before an episode even airs. That happens. The other thing that happens is the nature of a relationship. So getting invited as like a guest expert. That's my favorite. So a lot of podcasts hosts have masterminds and online courses and, you know, various ways in which they're serving their paid community.
This is my favorite next step in a relationship because it's easy to have this kind of collaboration with a podcast host because as the guest, you're continuing to provide value to what they're doing. So you're showing up and creating content for their paying clients, without them having to create that content.
And what happens is you are getting in front of an audience, who's proved that they like to open their wallet for more information. So like as a podcast guest, the people listening are consuming free content, which is great. You know, all of us that pay for stuff, we also consume free content, not to knock that, but when you get in the room with people who have paid to be in the room, you know, that you're talking to a paying audience.
So that's like my favorite thing to look for is that kind of opportunity that opens up. And we've all seen guest experts in masterminds and group coaching programs and online courses and all that stuff. And I always wondered how did these people get there? And I've learned it's through networking and what better way to network your way into those circles than showing up and providing a ton of value as a podcast guest, the person that's vetting you, the host, you know, they're hearing a lot of your expertise during that podcast interview.
And it's easy for them to see whether you'd be a good guest or not. So that's another way is becoming a like a guest expert in one for their paid audiences. Being invited to speaking events. Being introduced to people in their networking circles.
Describe the Spiderweb Effect of Being a Podcast Guest
Kristin: You know, I was interviewed by somebody that you [the host of Marketing Bound] interviewed.
I'm trying to think if that's how it went. I think you interviewed her. And then I met her because you interviewed her and I was on her podcast and she introduced me to somebody else that interviewed me. And so the change is kind of like kept going and going. Yeah. Another thing that I've had is I've bought into programs that podcast hosts have have like sold or whatever.
One of them is I'm working with somebody who just interviewed me. She does Pinterest. And so I've wanted to try out Pinterest as like a side marketing thing for a while. And I started working with her and I've worked with somebody else that did some other marketing stuff. And so the networking that happens by joining other people's programs as well, like it's just like spirals and it's kind of spir- I don't even know spirals it like spiderwebs. Is it gets crazy.
Laura: It's exponential because I think people don't realize like when you can get into a podcasters network, like you never realize how large that is. For example, like I'm not a big podcaster, not saying that at all, but I have interviewed 80 people minimum. Right. So if you're telling me like, you need a need, like let's say for Pinterest, well, technically, I actually know somebody because I interviewed them and they told me like a breakdown on how to use Pinterest, for example.
Laura: And so if I could have made that connection for you guys. Yeah. Always like that. Always. And actually just so everyone knows another and we can talk more about like the domino effect of this. But since you're mentioning it, Kristin told me about a job that I then applied for and got and actually worked for them for a year. So like, it's just crazy how, like the people you meet through podcasting can actually help you further down the line.
Kristin: And I looked like a hero to you and the person that hired you because I was thanked profusely by the person that hired you...
Laura: ...well that's cause I'm amazing. (I was joking)
Kristin: yes, you made me look good cause that could have been bad.
Laura: Yeah. And then another thing, I feel like a lot of people don't realize is that the value of you being a guest on a podcast is not by the number of listeners. If the number of listeners is like, Honestly, one of the last things, unless you're like sponsoring the episode, that's completely different. But as a guest
Laura: You have access to that network. And that, and that is honestly like the key.
Kristin: I learned that from two specific podcast features that I think that most people would say would have been a waste of my time. So the first one was somebody who had produced like 50 episodes, but had hardly any reviews. And you couldn't tell by looking at his podcast, if he had any traction at all, it just kind of felt like you know, what is this guy's strategy? Like, I don't understand. He's like, you know, less than 10 reviews and he has had over 50 episodes and, you know, like, I don't really know. I don't know what he's doing...
This man was so stinking connected. He introduced me to so many people just because I showed up not only during the interview and provide value, but I continued to foster relationship afterwards.
That was one of the episodes that I think last time I calculated that one introduction or that like networking spiral. That was worth $30,000 to my business.
Laura: See like that's Crazy.
Kristin: And the other one was, I was on somebody's podcast. This was a lot earlier in my podcast guesting journey.
She had only 10 podcasts get released. No, I was in the top 10 and I was in the top 10 and a lot of people would say, You know, this is a brand new podcast. Like there's no listeners.
Well, here's the deal. She immediately, within a week referred three people that hired me right away because she pre-sold them on my services before the episode even dropped.
The other thing that continued to happen is she stopped recording her podcast. But because of the evergreen content, it still lived on. Her team continued to market the content because it still was relevant. And I continue to get clients from the episode dropping even like six months after she stopped recording episodes.
And I was like who would have known, like all these marketers, quote I'm doing air quotes right now would have told me, like, it's not worth your time. Like this person, you're going on a platform that doesn't have any bandwidth. And it's like, no, no. The value in my strategy is the connection and the networking value. And that is really hard to quantify.
When you just look at somebody's online presence, which I lovingly refer to as vanity metrics a lot of the time, it doesn't mean a whole lot.
Laura: Exactly. And you said it best if I can reword it, it's very much like the new form of marketing, because everyone thinks like, oh, you put an ad up, you pay $2 for it.
Somebody clicks it. And then that leads to either like an email sign up or the can potentially be, you know, a customer down the line. And then it's so, so clear to see that. Right. But the podcasting world, like when you actually like re like go back and trace yourself, It's exactly what you said. Like you got $30,000 from that one guy.
Kristin: It's crazy
Laura: through that one guy.
Kristin: I don't know how much I've gotten, honestly. Like, I don't even know how to quantify it at this point. I haven't tracked it, but the relationship with you, like you, I was on the cusp of wanting to be on LinkedIn. Cause like I came into this, I had no social media presence.
Like I need to give you credit for this. I had zero social media presence. The way I say it now, as I kind of sort of hang out on LinkedIn, I had like strong content strategy for a little while and got clients from that strategy. And now I don't necessarily have a strong content strategy, but I engage with people on LinkedIn.
So if people want to find me, that's where they find me. I have, you know, these DM conversations, like engaging with people on their posts and engaging in my DMS, all that kind of stuff. Is it called a DM on LinkedIn? Okay, correct message. Yeah.
(I hope she's not mad with this gif xD Love you Kristin!)
Kristin: I know what I'm talking about here, but the relationship with you, you know, it was because I see this as a relationship I shared with you, like, this is what I'm thinking, and you're like, you need to do it and here are the reasons you need to do it. (she's referring to me encouraging her to get on LinkedIn).
And I'm like, all right, she gives me some really good points. I'm just going to do it. And I have gotten clients as a result of knowing you and following the advice that you gave me. And so things like that, I think sometimes fall off our radar, but these are the ways that we grow businesses.
These are the ways that we grow sustaining businesses. You know, the person that's counting on that ad strategy, the moment they turn their ads off, like they're done, they don't have a relationship with Facebook. They don't have a relationship there. And you say like the new strategy. I hear what you're saying.
Totally. But if you think about it too, it's also like the old, old, old school strategy, like not podcasts connections, like how did we grow relationships or how do we grow businesses before social media? Relationships. This just expedites it because of the podcast platform, which I think makes it new and better.
Laura: I also think that your strategy and making sure that you're being value added is the key, because you can argue like connections in the past were like very salesy. Like you go play golf and then you sell a solution or whatever, a service. Whereas now it's like, no, you have to kind of prove yourself that you're worth being in their network. And then once they're know you're good. You're cool. Then you have access, access to their network.
Laura: And that's how you grow.
Kristin: And in what other platform, what other situation can I show up and just like talk all about myself like this again, you know, I know, I know I already said that,
Laura: People ask me all the time. They're like, how do you get guests? Like on your show? And I'm like, do you know, easy it is to get people to talk about themselves. People love coming on the podcast. Cause I just ask them about what they do all day.
Laura: About what they love. I ask them and then I get to know them. It's like a win-win I get
Kristin: It's a triple win because you got the audience is getting all the value too. So like when, when he looks like a hero.
Laura: Yeah. Yeah.
Kristin: It's brilliant.
Why Are Bigger Podcasts NOT Better When It Comes To Being a Guest
Laura: Now I know from our last conversation that, you know, obviously the value of being a podcast guest is clear at this point, everyone listening is like, damn, I really need to work with Kristin, but I know that you get pushback from clients.
Laura: I want to know what pushback you get. Let's let's just start with one. What is like, what, what do you think is like the main pushback that you get from your clients?
Kristin: Yeah, the biggest question that I hear and this is usually somebody who's not actually listened to an episode that I have recorded because I cover this.
Like every time I talk, but maybe came from a referral or, you know, just seeing me. On LinkedIn or whatever. They think that bigger is better. They're just stuck on the fact that bigger- And when, I mean bigger it's audience size - bigger audience, better opportunity.
They think that that is that's it.
Like you only want to go on big, big podcast. So I get from clients a lot of times. Well, how big are the podcasts that you can get me featured on? And I already gave you two personal case studies about my $30,000 podcast appearance with somebody who looked like, you know, the clients asked that would have said, no, I'm not going on that podcast. That's not a good opportunity.
And then here I am, I'm like, I don't know, let's give it a shot. $30,000 later. I'm like, dang. I would say yes to that all day, every day. Right? There's a few things that we've discovered. So I remember when I first started offering podcast booking services, I had no idea that people were going to come with this objection.
So when it came, I was like, oh crap. Do my potential clients know something that I don't know? I didn't go into this thinking this was marketing. I went into this with a philanthropic thinking like I want to help. Is this something that I missed out on? Okay. So since then I've been on two podcasts that have incredible metrics to brag about.
So one of them has millions of downloads and the other one, this guy has 50,000 people on his email list and he emails people like three times a week. And so he's like, it's very engaged. There's like all kinds of people, whatever, whatever. Right.
And I think. All right. This is the time for me to see what these potential clients have been talking about. Like, my business is going to take off, like, I'm going to record this interview. It's going to drop. If we just get 3% conversion rate, if we just get 1% conversion rate, it's going to turn into this many clients and yada yada yada. And you know, you know, when you get excited about some marketing, you're like boiling down all the numbers and dreaming for your, you know, big thing... Crickets.
I was on those podcasts and it was absolute crickets on the other end. Okay. So we're like, why? Like what's going on here? And here's a few of the things that we discovered. One, podcast hosts that have done so many episodes and are cranking out content like a well-oiled machine as a podcast guest, you are part of a machine.
You are part of that cranking out of content, not to say that this is the case with everybody, but there's less of that personal connection that happens there. You know, they're focused on the metrics. They're not necessarily focused on the relationship. The other thing is a lot of these people, they have really big established networks.
You know, people that have recorded 500 episodes, they have somebody in their network that probably does what you do and has been nurturing that relationship for many years already. It's going to be really hard as a brand new guest to come in and really stand out and become the new people, new person that they want to refer people to.
The other thing is like the bandwidth that you get from a marketing perspective on that kind of show, you know, people with newer podcasts, like the person I talked about is like one of the top 10 interviews, she put a ton of effort into marketing and was pushing it out enthusiastically. So like bragging about me, enthusiastically.
And so. The amount of exposure that I got. Well, I don't even know if I could say it that way. The quality of the exposure that I got was easily 10 times better than the quality of the exposure I got from the person that's sending three emails a week, interviewing people like crazy, you know, the person that has millions of downloads.
It's like, you know, checked that off my list for this week. So to me, it all boiled down to. Oh, yeah. Look at this like only 25% of the profit is really coming from just an episode dropping. It's 75% that comes from nurturing relationships.
And when you apply that to podcasts where there's no room for a relationship, there's really not a whole lot happening on the backend.
So it was shocking to me. And it's something that I have to explain to clients. Yeah, I know that it sounds a whole lot better, but you're better off aligning with somebody where there's room in their network. And there's a lot of synergistic opportunity to continue to collaborate relationship, build, build each other up, you know, be part of one another's network on the backend.
That's where you get that longevity. And not just hope for that one hit wonder.
Laura: And as a podcast host, you can also tell who is going to value the relationship and who isn't. When, when they get on the call and they're just like, like, okay, let's start. Like, that's how you know they're just there because they want the numbers. They want to see how many people are going to listen. How many people are going to click through to their website or whatever their goal is. And it's really when podcast guests come on and they wanted to like chat or they tell me about their day. Like that's when I know. Like, okay. First of all, I picked the right person because it aligns with my values, but also they see the potential of the relationship. And maybe whether it's conscious or not like them building that relationship, they know can pay off later on.
Laura: For their business. So, yeah, I think that's, that's crazy that you actually had to go through the whole scenario of getting on those big podcasts and then you were like, this sucks and you're like, I'm going to take to my small podcasts.
Kristin: It was weird to have that kind of like doubt. And I remember thinking like, oh no, did I just totally switch my business. And I didn't even think through how other people are thinking about what I offer, because I'm so focused on how it worked for me and I didn't even have these reservations. And so I was glad for the experience and to be able to really work through it.
And honestly, some people like just, they can't accept what I have to say. And that's fine. I would prefer not to book people who can't hear what I have to say. If a client comes to me and they hear nurture the relationship and they're like, ah, I don't have time for that. It's like, well then I don't want to get you booked as a guest.
Like you're not going to make my agency look good because we're going to position you in such a way where we're going to say to the podcast host, here's the value that they're gonna bring to the table. And if you're not going to come ready to show up and provide value, like you're going to make us look bad.
That's really, you know, that that's where it all starts. As the foundation here, you've got to show up, provide value and the treat people like people, you know, it's kind of crazy what happens on the backend of business growth. When you treat people like people.
It's not just this like quick fire hose that you turn on and then, you know, you turn, turn it off. It's this is a longevity approach, which I don't know I'm in business because I want to stay in business.
How To Nurture Podcast Relationships Into Meaningful Business
Laura: Yeah. Do you, do you also like help your client with nurturing the relationships they had with the podcast hosts?
Kristin: Yeah. So that is a piece of the business that we added about six months in. So we have that now, and we have a lot of resources in like our client portal. So the resources include things like here are conversation starters. So like when the episode ends, but you're still on the call, what do you say? Like how do you make it known that you want to nurture this relationship rather than being like, okay, thanks. You know, whatever.
So that also is piggy backed by when we get clients booked on a podcast, we include what's called a podcast profile and our podcast profile has some unique things to it. So it has information about the podcast, information about the podcast host, information about the podcast hosts business information, or any details that we can find like does the podcast host have a group coaching program or an online course or a mastermind because maybe those are some things that you want to talk about, like being a guest expert in those areas.
The other thing is who has this podcast host interviewed that may be good additional relationships for you to have. So like, you know, has this person interviewed somebody who's on your like goals sheet for podcast. And then who has this podcast hosted, interviewed by like them being a guest on other podcasts.
So like, what are potential relationships that you can build off of having this one relationship? Right? Not that you go straight into that thing, but I have found, you know, just simply saying like, Hey Laura, how do you know so-and-so? Just that like curious question. I've had people go, oh yeah, I loved that person.
Did you read their book? Yeah, I read their book. Oh my gosh, you would love them. Let me introduce you. It's all because I said, how did you meet so-and-so and that spiraled. So we provide all that to our clients. That's like our podcast profile. Like I said, we have a conversation starters to how to start those conversations.
We also have like tips for how to stay top of mind. So I remember one time I reached out to you and you're like, am I on your checklist for once a month follow up right now? And I was just cracking up. It was so funny.
Laura: Cause I was right? (we we're dying of laughter)
Kristin: I don't know. Honestly, I don't even remember. It's possible. So I'm going to put that in the 50, 50, I don't know, at this point.
We can be genuine and still be like smart and have a process behind stuff. In order to not feel just like super salesy or whatever, we provide like different ideas for our clients. So I'll break down just a couple of them, like send a direct message on LinkedIn. That's how you and I did a lot of communication.
Like every once in a while, just respond, sign up for the podcast host email list. And when they send out an email reply, like not very many people reply to emails that come to like a list. But just reply and be like, Hey, this was a really good tip. I'm going to forward this to my friend because I know they get value to look into your own personal network.
Like who can you introduce from your own network to the podcast host, or maybe recommend somebody that can go on their podcast. I find that's a really, really easy way, like you with the person that you worked for for a year. Like that's an easy way to look like a superhero, but literally do two sentences worth of heavy lifting.
Laura: Hey, Laura, I think you would be great for this position and then you sent it to me and that was it. Yeah, boom.
Kristin: So easy, you know, so it's like, okay, well who in like of my girlfriends that I get together with you know in Arizona, what do I, what are the kinds of things I do for them?
If I saw a job they'd be good for, I'd be telling them if they posted something on social media that I thought was really cute or whatever, I would say something. So like, what are you doing with people in your real life anyways? And it's funny because we literally put this in like a cheat sheet for our clients.
It works. So if you're going to get booked on podcasts, you're missing out on 75% of the profitability if you aren't doing these additional things. So what we do is we provide easy ways for our clients to make sure that they're nurturing relationships and they know how to nurture the relationship. What the next step in this relationship is.
And I say to our clients, if you can spend just an hour a month continuing to nurture the relationships with podcast hosts, it's going to be worth your time.
Laura: All that to say is where can people find you?
Kristin: Yeah. So our website is yes boss va.com. You can go there to learn a little bit more about what we do.
I have 10 minute masterclass about like more specifically how to get yourself out there to increase your visibility and credibility as a podcast guest. And like we mentioned, I don't do a whole lot of social media, but I do hang out on LinkedIn. So I am perfectly good with that platform. It doesn't tell me about what everybody went to high school with is doing who's having babies. I like LinkedIn. So find me on LinkedIn. Tell me that you heard me on the Marketing Bound podcast.
Laura: Yeah so we can track the domino effect;)
YesBoss Homepage (her website)
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Helping new B2B marketers look good at work. Tune in to the Marketing Bound Podcast to develop your marketing skills, navigate the corporate world like a pro, boost your confidence in your role and access the greatest minds in B2B marketing. Join Laura L. Bernhard every week to fast-track your career in B2B. Subscribe to the Marketing Bound Podcast on Spotify or on Apple Podcasts.